What new rounds would you like to see?

[Shadow]

Like we need more choices, but what would you guys like to see chambered in hunting rifles. The growing trends seem to be pushing for a 180 grain, 4,000 fps .30 caliber :D Maybe we need to go dig through Roy Weatherby's notes. I think I read somewhere that he developed a 5,000 fps .30 caliber as an experimental sniper round for the army. I think a .270 Win Short Mag would be a hot whitetail round, and I hear it is in the works. What about a .243 Win Short Mag for long range varmints? I say .243 because I am not sure if a .22 caliber round could stay together at the velocity they might approach in that cartridge. Has anyone ever heard of the .30-06 being necked down to .24 caliber? That should be a hot round for light game and varmints, though it would have stiff competition from the .25-06. I also wonder why the 8mm Rem Mag has never caught on. The ballistics on it look great for large game such as elk and moose. The STW catridge line based on it's case sure made a following. Marlin seems to be turning out some new rounds these days. They just went in with Hornady and developed the .450 Marlin, and I saw an article in a magazine yesterday for a .50 Alaskan. It is being touted as the first dangerous game lever gun. It is impressive looking with a short heavy barrel, lots of ports on the end, and a tube magazine that extends the under the barrel. I am a fan of short, fat round nose cartridges. I took my first deer with a .44 mag, and I think they are neat to tinker with. What would you guys like to see?

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Alan Shadow ]

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Alan Shadow ]

[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Alan Shadow ]

[Headhunter]

Alan,

That is a tough one. It seems that all the bases are covered for now. There is a cartrigde and rifle combo for any and all of the worlds game. From mice to wooly mammoths.

As a riflebuilder, I have built some very interesting rifles. When you get into the world of custom rifles, there is no holds barred. You can have what you want. I have worked with an interesting cartridge that I would like to see more of. It is called the 338 Ozark Magnum.

It is derived from a 350 Remington Magnum necked down to 338 caliber. I built one on a Remington Model 7 for a guy and he really likes it. It approaches 338 Win Mag ballistics with 210 grain Nosler Partitions in a short action. It would be a good thing to mess around with.

Everything in the .223 bullet diameter to 338 is pretty much done. I do look for an increase in research and development with the 40 caliber, caseless ammunition and switch barrel rigs.

The Magnum Craze is over, the Ultra Mag Craze is soon to be over as well as the short mags. Some day hunters will realize that when you shoot past 300 yards, it makes no difference what cartridge you are shooting, you have to get the exact range and have your rifle sighted in at that range.

Headhunter

[Shadow]

I agree, velocity does not make you a long range shooter. Though it does make things simpler for the guy that is capable of taking such shots. I read an interesting excerpt the other day about a .17 rimfire magnum. Supposedly they are necking the .22 magnum down to .17 caliber. I need to re-read that article, but I think they were talking about being able to shoot out to 300 yards with this. I think that may be a little far fetched with such a light bullet. The wind would most likely wreeck havoc on the little .17. If I recall, it was shooting like a 13 grain bullet. Although something like that would make an interesting 100 yard varmint gun, I think it will just be a novelty. Wonder why no one has done anything in the 5mm department for a varmint rig. I have only heard of one gun built on a 5mm and it was a custom. I forget what parent case they were using. The .50 Alaskan was a neat article. It is being built on a marlin lever action. It has a super short barrel, and is generating like 4,500 to 5,000 ft pounds. The author also said it would rattle your fillings loose.

[willettm]

Let's just take the speed craze for muzzle loaders a step further and come up with a .36 caliber and a saboted 180 gr. .30 cal. bullet and see what kind of push we get out of 100-120 grains of pyrodex. :D

[Headhunter]

Now that sounds like one hell of an Idea. It would be pretty fun and I imagine, pretty accurate. The only problem would be, some states mandate a .40 caliber or larger, some, 45.

Headhunter

[STG90]

I heard Remington is going to neck down the 12 gauge round to a 20 gauge and shorten it to 2 inches. Remington claims that if they name the new round way too supershort 20 gauge megablaster magnum, gun writers will praise it as the latest "king of the hill" in deer calibers.......

[Walker]

I'd really like to see a 6.5X06. It would probably relegate the fine shooting 25-06's to antelope and varmint guns. Walker

[Trooper]

I personally would like to see the .35 WSM. I don't know how close it would be to the .350 Rem Mag, but if it is worthwhile, I would be interested.

[Dick Fuehrer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan Shadow:
....Has anyone ever heard of the .30-06 being necked down to .24 caliber....[ December 12, 2001: Message edited by: Alan Shadow ]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a 243-06. I don't know if it's a factory load or a wildcat but it's out there. I can see one big problem with it, though. High velocity/small caliber rounds heat up a barrel VERY fast and overheated barrels erode quickly. It's possible to shoot out a barrel in just a few hundred rounds if you don't cool it between shots.

Dick

[chansen92]

Walker mentioned that he would like see an 06 necked to 6.5mm. Well that was done a long time ago. RWS chambered a round in 6.5x65 that was designed as a simple rechamber job for 6.5x55 & 6.5x57. You can have just about any good gunsmith rechamber a sound 6.5x55 to 6.5x65 simply by using reamers for 270 cal or you can get a 6.5x64 by using reamers for the 30-06. I have a 26inch 6.5x65 barrel on a Mauser action and it will push a 140gr bullet over the 3100fsp mark. I have shot woodchucks out to around 800 yrds or better with no problems. I dont have a good range finder and that distants was measured with a tape over rough ground. I have heard that there is a 1000 yrd club in Penn. and several members use that cal. in tricked out long range rifles. They wont shoot at anything under 1,000 yrds.

[Walker]

For several years I yearned to build a 6.5 Gibbs but as I get older I like recoil less and less. I'm in the process of building my daughter a 6.5X55 right now and my next project might be a 6.5-06. With the seemingly poor quality of the new factory guns I doubt I'd buy one even if somebody offered it. Walker

[Shadow]

Well, it is reality now. I saw an ad for the .17 Win Rim Mag yesterday. It is a .22 WMR necked down to .17. It launches a 17 grain ballistic tip at around 2,500 fps. Hornady is making the ammo,and Ruger and Marlin are chambering rifles. It would be an interesting rifle to play with.

[1tlynn]

I se no post here on the 300 WSM, seems to be the ideal for 150-180 grain shooting. Whats the scoope on this.

[Shadow]

From everything I have read, the .300 WSM is just another version of a .300 Win Mag. There is not any difference in velocity between the two, but the WSM is more efficient. It achieves the velocities with 7% less powder. The WSM will fit in a short action, so it is availible in compact rifles. This is the one thing that doesn't make sense to me. Usually a magnum gun needs a little longer barrel to reach it's full potential. It would be an excellent rifle to own, but if you already had a .300 Win Mag, I don't see a reason to go out and get another rifle, especially since this one offers no real ballistic advantage. Granted you will save a little money on powder if you reload, and it is supposed to be inherently more accurate because of the short, efficient powder column. From all the shooting I have done though, accuracy has more to do with the shooter than the bullet loaded in his rifle. Some loads do shoot tighter than others, but most shooting error comes from the person behind the trigger.

[woodseye]

The 300WSM makes us guys who don't like long actions happy. I didn't care what my pre 64 stand. grade weighed when I was 30 but after 50 and mixing in some mountains,that little 7 pound scoped rascal feels pretty GOOD!Yet it can still reach out and touch something pretty good. :eek:

[Shadow]

I saw a recent write up on the .300 WSM, the 7mm WSM, and the .270 WSM. The 7mm was the better of the three if I recall correctly. Not because of the 7mm bulet, but because they changed the shoulder angle or lengthened it so that it would not load into the .270 WSM. This gave it a wee bit more powder capacity. I hear a .25 WSM is in the works. Now that would be a hot number. As would an 8mm WSM. I don't understand why the 8mm Rem Mag is not more popular. It looks pretty darn good on paper as a big game gun.

[woodseye]

I've heard the same about the 7mm and I'M trying to decide between it and the 300 in a short action savage16. I lean toward the 7mm so I will have to wait a little longer for it to go into production.I just favor the 7mm's for some reason,just personal perference I guess.Good post Alan. smile.gif

[Boyd Heaton]

6.5-300 Win short mag in a M70 Classic Stainless.......

[Dick Fuehrer]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alan Shadow:
Has anyone ever heard of the .30-06 being necked down to .24 caliber
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The .22 Swift isn't too far from that. The case length is about the same although the swift is slightly narrower. I think the case base is the same. It topped over 4000 fps with some bullets.

Dick

[Shadow]

I thought the .220 swift was a much shorter case than the .30-06? I will have to look at some next time I go to the store. The aught 6 also has an accelerator load. It is a .22 bullet in a sabot that you can fire from your .30-06. They are clipping when they come out. I am pretty sure at over 4,000fps. The little .17 Remington is also a fast little bullet. However, these light bullets run out of steam fast. I think if I were going to get into varmit hunting I would ahve to get the .243. It could serve double duty in a pinch, and ammo is pretty cheap. Now for a dedicated varmit gun I would have to opt for the .223 just because ammo is so cheap and available.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Alan Shadow ]

[Zachary]

While everyone lately seems to be buying SUPER Magnums (i.e. Remington ULTRA mags, etc.) I have moved in the extact opposite direction.

Specifically, I recently bought a .260 Remington and 7mm-08. You know what? These rounds, even over 200 yards, are just great! Yes, they don't hit an animial like a locomotive, and they are not as flat as ruler. However, keep in mind that you only need a minimum of about 1,000 ft. lbs of energy to kill a whitetail deer. These super magnums are only for very, very limited circumstances, and hunting whitetails within 250 yards is not one of them.

That said, since the .260 and 7mm-08 are .264 and .284 calibers in short actions, I would like to see something in the middle, say a .277. Think of it as a .308 Winchester with a .270 Winchester bullet. I heard that Ruger might, just might, create this load and call it a .270 Ruger. It would be like a .270 Winchester Short Magnum, just without the "Magnum."

[Shadow]

Zach, in case you have not heard, which you probably have, the .270 WSM is out. I know it is a magnum, but I would not classify it as a super magnum.

[Walker]

I could go for that one Boyd. A 6.5 WSM.

[Shadow]

Ben I am afraid that 17 would vaporize beofre it left the barrel if pushed with the .50 BMG case LOL. Although, with trends in velocity, I am surprised no one has necked the .50 down to something lol.

[Ben]

Hey Walker, they actually have a 6.5-06. Its an Ackley round. Here is SOME, not alot, but some info about it. Go to this site: www.accuratereloading.com/6.506improved.html (http://www.accuratereloading.com/6.506improved.html)

And whats the point of all these rounds ultra high velocity rounds. I mean, once you pass th 4,000 fps barrier, you start wearing out your barrel really quick, and many bulets fly apart at these speeds, but I guess that also has to deal with your rate of twist. We need a new barrel capable of withstanding such velocities first, and bullets able to withstand the tremendous force of these speeds.

How about a 17/50BMG?

[Gerard]

I have just rechambered one of my daughter's 220 Swift rifles to a 22x64. Used a modified 22-250 reamer and the final configuration looks exactly like a 22-250 stretched to 2.52". The Swift case is 2.20" and holds 46.25 gr of water compared to 63 gr for the 22x64. We used to run the 220 Swifts at 4300 fps with 40 gr bullets and will be stretching for 5000 fps.

[Shadow]

Now that my friend is whistling dixie. Do the .22 caliber bulets hold up at that velocity? Did you have to change the twist rate of the barrel? I have wondered how such extra velocity would effect such a small bullet. I don't know what is fact and what is myth about such things.

[Ben]

Fact: You will wear out the barrel really fast.
Myth: You won't wear out the barrel really fast.

[Gerard]

Jacketed lead bullets do not fare well at these speeds and offten "blue streak" is observed smile.gif. We use monometal bullets and, with the rifle we rechambered having a one in 14 barrel, we stay with the 40 gr bullets.

The converted rifle has only been fired with monometal bullets while it was a 220 Swift except for a comparitive experiment we did with ten shots of jacketed bullets. So far it has done around 2500 shots over 4200 fps and the throat was still ok. We rechambered to 22x64 mainly to see when flame cutting will start and where the limits of the components are. We use these rifles and loads for African antelope up to 250 lbs at ranges from close to 450 meters. We do not shoot them hot and allow at least 30 sec to one minute of open bolt between shots on the range. I cannot recall having to fire more than three in quick succession out hunting.

[Ben]

I was talking about a normal barrel with normal bullets.

[Dick Fuehrer]

Back to the 17-bmg50...I suspect that it would blow up. The bore is simply too small to vent the gases fast enough to keep the pressure from getting too high too fast.

Dick

[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Dick Fuehrer ]

[Ben]

Yeah, but that would be pretty cool though!